Altered Mental Status(1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

Got her all back assembled. I hate putting the exhaust on. I 100% need to get my welder to put some v-bands on for me so I can just drop the downpipe instead of the whole thing.

But, before I started it and tried the clutch out, I wanted to finish installing my little OEM look-a-like coolant overflow tank. Went and grabbed some 5/16 fuel hose rated for coolant and 300*+ temps, and popped it on. I am in love with how it looks OEM, and fits in that spot perfect. No extra holes drilled or anything.

The last pic shows the "vent" or where it'll shoot all the excess coolant out if it overheats. Honestly 3' of line was perfect. Love this. It was like $10 for the overflow tank and mount too!

But, after assembling it and starting it, alas, the clutch still doesn't disengage fully. I knew it wouldn't though, so I'm not bummed, angry, or surprised. Still happy! As this way I can finally answer with authority that everything mechanical or clutch related in the engine bay is 100% new OEM, or better. Everything I can mess with is bled to its fullest, shimmed the proper amount, and checked out to be guaranteed within spec, except two things. 1) The clutch master cylinder and 2) the clutch itself has no way to be verified, so if I change the master and it still doesn't disengage, I'm RMA'ing the clutch kit.

But honestly, I'm very happy with progress. I got the trans pulled out and reinstalled almost fully in a single day by myself, and just buttoned up stuff today. Car started and idled like a champ, revs good. It wants to run so bad. But from here, thank GOD I don't have to drop this damn trans again. The next time I drop a trans it'll be for the last time, on God himself I mean it. Lol.

How does it look after?

I gotchu, fam.

Angle is slightly tilted up so perspective is weird, but it's in pretty much the exact same spot as before. I just have the fork boot installed to cover up my open and exposed fork hole.

Minus a few open wires that need to be addressed(and they will be), I am very happy with this engine bay.

Until next time.

 

[dwb]

Shimmed?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Shimmed?

Pivot ball is, yes.

 

[twicks69]

What is the movement range of the clutch fork at the slave when you depress the pedal fully? Where is the clutch master cylinder rod adjusted to currently? The disengagement range should be adjusted to 0-2" from the floor.

I don't know how you are having issues with this, but you already know that these clutch hydraulics and pedal assemblies are notorious for problems. I am expecting it is not the clutch.

 

[CrackedDSM]

What is the movement range of the clutch fork at the slave when you depress the pedal fully? Where is the clutch master cylinder rod adjusted to currently? The disengagement range should be adjusted to 0-2" from the floor.

I don't know how you are having issues with this, but you already know that these clutch hydraulics and pedal assemblies are notorious for problems. I am expecting it is not the clutch.

The CMC rod is adjusted pretty much all the way out, but I really don't think it's an OEM unit. The PO replaced both the master and the slave with "new" parts that he was TOLD was OEM, but I'm pretty sure were just part's store brands. The slave that was on it was a parts store unit that I replaced with a brand new OEM one, and bled the entire system religiously.

The only thing left I haven't touched/replaced is the CMC. However, I just now purchased one and it's on the way. So that'll change soon.

And the clutch pedal assembly was rebuilt w/ the bronze bushing, and there's no play at all. Pulling up on the clutch pedal results in nothing moving or anything. It's like the rod on the CMC is too short, which from what I've read about the aftermarket/parts store units, it IS. Along with orifice holes that are too small/wrong size.


Either way, once the CMC is replaced everything will be brand new and OEM. That and replacing with CMC with one that doesn't have a rusty AF rod like my current CMC does will make adjusting it a bunch easier.

Also, as far as range goes, here’s a video of the fork/slave action when the clutch pedal is pressed.



@twicks69

 

[chrisman287]

I gotchu, fam

Strange, it looks like it’s in a pretty good position and that it has enough movement also..

 

[twicks69]

Position looks fine, i wouldn't say 1/2" of movement is amazing, there should be normally a bit more range. I am still suspecting a CMC issue. Is this with a braided line from Master to Slave cylinder? Or the stock hoses/hard line?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Position looks fine, i wouldn't say 1/2" of movement is amazing, there should be normally a bit more range. I am still suspecting a CMC issue. Is this with a braided line from Master to Slave cylinder? Or the stock hoses/hard line?

Braided line, I THINK goes all the way to the master. I need to verify but it’s a pretty long line.

Is it a CMC issue as in non OEM need to be replaced? Or something else?

 

[1cleangsx]

I still say it’s more clutch than Mitsubishi ever intended for these cars. I passed a clutch drag test yesterday again on my SSX plate, with the rod adjusted ALL the way in. Slave obviously wasn’t self adjusting, as soon as I thread it back out it drags, the gnarly pressure in the pedal is gone, I got it releasing pretty decent with slave adjustment, on my rebuilt pedal assembly, oem slave/master but again, I’m trying to make something work with something that was never meant to be

@bastarddsm seems to know it ALL, but also happens to be the ONLY one to make it work, that’s right dude chime in…

I know Donnie also claimed to get his act 2900 to release by re drilling the hole on the lever bar in the assembly but again, your completely re engineering a doomed assembly to make it do the impossible. I’m still set on simply going twin, not because I have a 9 second, 600ft/lb car, but because it WORKS with the factory hydraulic system.

What’s so Interesting about this whole debacle is when there’s enough PRESSURE in the system the clutch releases. Unfortunately if it’s with an extended slave or an over adjusted master that’s pre loading the system you can’t run the car that way, so without an engineering degree and admitting I’m a retard it still SEEMS like there’s something to this pressure thing? How can we generate enough pressure from A (the pedal) to B(the slave) with it still able to self adjust to the clutch disk. All these bigger/smaller bore slaves still don’t do shit until you adjust the master to increase hydraulic pressure, am I wrong?

 

[CrackedDSM]

I’m curious the answer as well. If I have to I will honestly just go ACT if this southbend stuff needs all this extra shit. People have made act single disks work on low HP DSMs for years.

 

[1cleangsx]

Again I’ve got everything working pretty decent, the car drives fine, the clutch engages smooth and holds the power, it just gets old after awhile dealing with the same issue , but it’s still a first world problem . I’m sorry for ranting on your build thread, and I don’t mean to call anyone out. I’m great full we have people like Tim to chime in and help us out, and I think kurt @bastarddsm makes some great parts and knows what he’s talking about, so again, sorry for ranting, could be worse, my cars not broke, OP I hope you get yours sorted out, we’re never giving up

 

[92Turbski]

I'll chime in here. But, it's what everyone already knows.
ACT 2600, street disc without springs, OE flywheel step spec'd at .610, New OE MC and Slave, braided stainless line end to end. No pedal slop, bled without preload on CMC, nut welded on the clevis, then CMC rod adjusted ALL the out just until before if doesnt allow the slave to be pushed back in by hand, Motul 5.1 high temp fluid, clutch switch backed out all the way, only after all this does the system barrrrely make it work...but it does work! I think (in my limited scope opinion here, take it with a grain of salt) that this is your best possible setup unless youre making big power. Until this stops working or I need more holding power...this will be it. Otherwise I'll probably have Kurt's long travel modded pedals and Wilwood CMC.

I did have a shitty aftermarket CMC on there and absolutely no Bueno, that thing was trash.

Cory, we're all hoping to see your car moving under it's own power, soon!

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'll chime in here. But, it's what everyone already knows.
ACT 2600, street disc without springs, OE flywheel step spec'd at .610, New OE MC and Slave, braided stainless line end to end. No pedal slop, bled without preload on CMC, nut welded on the clevis, then CMC rod adjusted ALL the out just until before if doesnt allow the slave to be pushed back in by hand, Motul 5.1 high temp fluid, clutch switch backed out all the way, only after all this does the system barrrrely make it work...but it does work! I think (in my limited scope opinion here, take it with a grain of salt) that this is your best possible setup unless youre making big power. Until this stops working or I need more holding power...this will be it. Otherwise I'll probably have Kurt's long travel modded pedals and Wilwood CMC.

I did have a shitty aftermarket CMC on there and absolutely no Bueno, that thing was trash.

Cory, we're all hoping to see your car moving under it's own power, soon!

Appreciate ya. I know it'll get there eventually.


Oh, and I dunno if I said it already but OEM CMC on its way as we speak.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

If it’s any positive addition to the discussion, I’ve seen several local guys over the years that have came and gone with these cars try the parts house master cylinder, every time if they even worked out of the box they didn’t work for long. I’m confident we’ll see some drastic progress in the coming days throwing the oem one on there.

 

[CrackedDSM]

If it’s any positive addition to the discussion, I’ve seen several local guys over the years that have came and gone with these cars try the parts house master cylinder, every time if they even worked out of the box they didn’t work for long. I’m confident we’ll see some drastic progress in the coming days throwing the oem one on there.

Yeah this one sat for like 8 years. It's had enough water run on/near it that the adjustment rod is rusty AF. I'm very curious to look at it when I remove it and see what's up.


Also: I'm curious about something...what do you guys mean "bleeding the CMC without preload"? Do you mean bench-bleeding it, or bleeding it by hand once it's in the car but not hooked up to the pedal?

 

[1cleangsx]

I would imagine they mean bleeding it with the rod adjusted all the out(away from the firewall) that’s when the bore would be completely full of fluid with no pressure in the system. That’s also how I bleed it then per the TRE right up bleed the slave, and this usually gets it like 99% there

 

[CrackedDSM]

While we're at it, can anyone tell me how to find the part numbers for these bolts?

I have Mitsu ASA and the FSM which is where I got the picture from. Is there another resource I don't have?


Edit - I searched and searched and found the list of ASA numbers on the STMTuned website, but that was pure luck. There is another resource that I'm missing that shows an exploded parts view like above but has the little ASA number right beside it. If anyone knows what that is, hit me up!

Also: for posterity, I'm gonna list what those bolts are and the size/pitch/etc for anyone searching in the future.

Left, FR Axle crossmember is what the bar is officially called

In order from left to right in the picture is

MB176900 - M12x1.25 x 28
MU240024 - M10x1.25 x 45
MU240025 - M10x1.25 x 75
MU240023 - M10x1.25 x 25

The picture above has it wrong as far as bolts go. It shows the back two bolts of the crossmember being the same. They aren't. Including another picture of the actual parts list of the bolts that was ripped from STMTuned website.

That was ridiculous the effort it took me to find that. Can't wait for a DSM guru to come in here though and link me to the page where it has a complete list and makes me look dumb. Lol.

 

[We're on Boost]

Also, as far as range goes, here’s a video of the fork/slave action when the clutch pedal is pressed.

Hard to be sure but I used a vertical edge of another window to line up a feature on the end of the fork with the ruler, and it looks to me like you are getting 7/16" travel at the end of the fork.
You can get more than that with good MC and good everything else.
I was measuring 9/16" or a few thou more there on my car when I had the ACT 2700 in it and good new OEM cylinders, and of course the nut welded onto the clevis end like @92Turbski mentioned.

"Rocker ratio" or Lever ratio of the fork is about 1.8 which we measured in this thread with @GRNDSM.
Your 7/16" (.437") travel at the tip of the fork is only .437/1.8 = .243" travel at the TOB.
Now look at post #17 in that GRNDSM thread. BastardDSM there says "They start letting the disc loose at 0.250" or so, but for good shifts you need a lot more."

My 9/16" (.562") travel was .562/1.8 = .312" travel at the TOB. That was passable I thought for shifting below 8,000 rpm.

In post #11 in the GRNDSM thread BastardDSM says "I run a wilwood .700" master in my car (with) 2g .812 slave and reworked the pedals for longer travel but raising the pedal and reorienting the arm. Works really well to get the 2900 and 2600's to shift good at 10k.
You need somewhere around 0.400" of tob travel to fully release a 2600." (at 10,000 rpm I guess he means)

0.400" of TOB travel would be .4 x 1.8 = 0.720" of travel out at the end of the fork. I don't think any of us get that much on a 1g without some serious mods.

So there's some stuff to chew on. The hydraulic ratio (bore area ratio) of those 2 cylinders would be a little different than our regular units, and when he says "reworked the pedals for longer travel but raising the pedal and reorienting the arm" I think he must mean getting full-up further from the floor so there is more degrees of arc in the total pedal swing from top to bottom. Our stock is about 30 degrees which I measured on my car with an electronic level attached. Any mod you can make to get a few more degrees of rotation out of it will use more of the travel that is available in our master cylinder, and that will push more fluid to the slave.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Hard to be sure but I used a vertical edge of another window to line up a feature on the end of the fork with the ruler, and it looks to me like you are getting 7/16" travel at the end of the fork.
You can get more than that with good MC and good everything else.
I was measuring 9/16" or a few thou more there on my car when I had the ACT 2700 in it and good new OEM cylinders, and of course the nut welded onto the clevis end like @92Turbski mentioned.

"Rocker ratio" or Lever ratio of the fork is about 1.8 which we measured in this thread with @GRNDSM.
Your 7/16" (.437") travel at the tip of the fork is only .437/1.8 = .243" travel at the TOB.
Now look at post #17 in that GRNDSM thread. BastardDSM there says "They start letting the disc loose at 0.250" or so, but for good shifts you need a lot more."

My 9/16" (.562") travel was .562/1.8 = .312" travel at the TOB. That was passable I thought for shifting below 8,000 rpm.

In post #11 in the GRNDSM thread BastardDSM says "I run a wilwood .700" master in my car 2g (with) .812 slave and reworked the pedals for longer travel but raising the pedal and reorienting the arm. Works really well to get the 2900 and 2600's to shift good at 10k.
You need somewhere around 0.400" of tob travel to fully release a 2600." (at 10,000 rpm I guess he means)

So there's some stuff to chew on. The hydraulic ratio (bore area ratio) of those 2 cylinders would be a little different than our regular units, and when he says "reworked the pedals for longer travel but raising the pedal and reorienting the arm" I think he must mean getting full-up further from the floor so there is more degrees of arc in the total pedal swing from top to bottom. Our stock is about 30 degrees which I measured on my car with an electronic level attached. Any mod you can make to get a few more degrees of rotation out of it will use more of the travel that is available in our master cylinder.

When you guys say clevis end, do you guys mean on the other side of the hole where the rod threads through? Like facing the firewall to extend the amount you can adjust the rod?

 

[1cleangsx]

Yes EXACTLY

 

[We're on Boost]

When you guys say clevis end, do you guys mean on the other side of the hole where the rod threads through? Like facing the firewall to extend the amount you can adjust the rod?

Yes, that's what I mean anyway. I have a good picture of it in post #4 in my build thread, with a blue arrow to the nut that is welded on.
Welding stuff that small is -- I'd hate to be the one doing it.
It must have been TIG welded. It's a really small neat weld.
Also look at the nut - it's bigger and beefier overall than the jam nut on the rod.
I think it's probably a DIN standard or some other kind of "large" nut, I haven't really nailed it down.
Also you would want to do it with a bolt or something threaded through both the nut and the threads that are already in the clevis so they line up with each other.
You could get the exact same effect if you had a master rod that was about 1/4" longer. Not a longer slave rod. A longer master rod.

 

[1cleangsx]

 

[CrackedDSM]

God I really don’t want to pull half the dash to remove the pedal. Really really hope I don’t have to do that. Lol.

Oh wait I see what y’all mean. That’s awesome. I can get that little bit welded by my guy who did my intercooler pipes.

 

[1cleangsx]

That oblong hole you see in the lever is what caused my pedal slop. I looked into buying a new lever but they come factory with a plastic bushing which obviously disintegrates over time, so I drilled it out and installed a brass insert.

 

[1cleangsx]

This gave me immediate engagement of the master rod as soon I began to depress the pedal, but even that didn’t fix the engagement issue fully, I may try to raise my pedal height some more