weird starter issue

[jay-red]

So I thought this was a pretty unique issue im having with my starter. I got an awd shell with a bad motor, i had wanted to do a compression check just to see what it was, and when you turned the key to the on position it immediately started cranking and even when i removed the key it kept cranking for like 10 seconds.

So i thought i would figure it out down the line, and well here i am with the new engine in and wired up with the same issue. I already checked the ignition switch, and now i have a lead to check the relay. I know the starter is good because i put on my known good one when i swapped the engine.

So thats pretty much it, just wanted to get any suggestions before i went out to work on it tomorrow.

 

[gofer]

I know you already said you swapped the starter with a KNOWN good one but I'm still pointing the finger at the starter. The only time this happens (that I've ever seen) is when the starter solenoid shorts internally and the only way to fix it is by replacing the starter.

I'm not saying this is what you did but, if you don't disconnect the battery when you install the starter and you accidently tap the starter case you can smoke check its internals.

 

[GUTSI]

I know you already said you swapped the starter with a KNOWN good one but I'm still pointing the finger at the starter. The only time this happens (that I've ever seen) is when the starter solenoid shorts internally and the only way to fix it is by replacing the starter.

I'm not saying this is what you did but, if you don't disconnect the battery when you install the starter and you accidently tap the starter case you can smoke check its internals.

Gotta agree. Since you've definately ruled out ignition switch, the solenoid's stuck in the "active" position. Was the relay ok?
It's not uncommon to accidentally bridge the terminals during install (imperative to disconnect battery)
To be absolutely sure: If it's possible, remove starter, disassemble and chk if solenoid's stuck in the open position...

 

[jay-red]

ok guys, did a bunch of tests today and got some really strange results that confuse me. First off it for sure isnt the starter. So i have the diagrams from the fsm so i was checking it against the car, and everything looks to be in order. So this problem happens if the clutch is in or out, it happens when the switch is in the on position. I replaced the relay with on out of my parts car and didnt change anything, i took out the relay completely and it didnt change anything!

I took out the ecu and it wouldnt crank, i swapped ecu's and got the same result. I changed the starter harness for the one from my parts car and same. I put a test light into the wire that switches the solenoid and when the key went to on the light turns on, then when i remove the key the light stays on for a few seconds then turns off. When in the car i can hear a click when the power shuts off to the starter, like a relay or something clicked. I checked the "anti-theft" relay under the radio and no difference. I kept hoping to find some crappy splices or loose connections under the dash but everything looks pretty much untouched.

So to cap it off, i have checked everything i know how to, im about to go get a starter solenoid and wiring it straight to the ignition.

 

[jay-red]

does anyone know if bypassing the starter wiring and rewiring in my own starter relay straight off the ignition switch will pose any problems?

Oh, and i thought about the problem a bit more and think there could possibly be a remote start system installed by the PO, that would make sense why the clutch pedal doesnt make a difference and the starter relay can be removed with no change in the problem. The issue is that if this is the case then whoever installed the system did a damn fine job of hiding it and not hacking up the harness.

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds like the remote start system is the primary suspect. And if you have an anti-theft system that may be involved also (like turning the starter off perhaps).

On factory theft alarms with manual tranny they use a normally open theft alarm relay and normally closed starter relay. With an auto tranny however these are just the opposite. I can see where this could be a problem for an after market system installation and/or the car used to be an auto but now is a manual tranny.

 

[jay-red]

still cant find anything obviously out of place except for these 2 things that i had to take a pic of, i checked my laser and it had neither of these.

First is this weird orange thing that was behind the radio in the harness:

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a pulled back shot so you can tell where it is at:

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and i found this stray plug near the clutch pedal:

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Pulled back:

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I bought a starter solenoid so i can just bypass all of this, but before i take the dive and do it, i wanted to try one last time to figure this out. Also there was a key fob that came with the key, but it is very cheap looking and doesnt have a battery, and only has 2 buttons. Im going to get a battery for it and see if possibly it has some remote start on it.

 

[luv2rallye]

I'd recommend just wiring in your own starter relay and be done with it. Sounds like it's not going to be worth the time and effort to unravel and trace every wire that's been changed just to see what's been done, when you'll just end up wiring it up yourself in the end anyway. Unless you just can't sleep at night.

The starter relay is normally closed (you have manual tranny I assume - auto is opposite) and only opens for a factory theft alarm violation or clutch pedal not pressed condition. If you don't care about this, you don't even need a starter relay at all. Just wire the ignition switch Start Position directly to the starter solenoid.

 

[mcre8iv]

Was this resolved. I have a 1g and am having almost the exact same problem. Was it the starter solenoid? Or is there a relay or somthing that shorted? Please advise. I know the posting is old, it would be helpful if people post the resolution to the problems. I will when I get mine figured out.

 

[mcre8iv]

I resolve my same starter problem with a new starter relay. It may be the starter relay. I actually replaced the starter. Mine is good for now. Hope that helps.