1G Cam recommendations

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

I have a stock head what cams do yall recommend over stock cams without upgrading springs,valves,ect.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Depends on what you’re looking to do.

 

[curt-s]

That is such an open ended question when you don't have a profile or list anything that was done to the engine.

It's akin to
"How big of a house should I buy?"

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

For context I'm running 1000cc injectors, built bottom end, big 20g pushing 30lbs of boost. I wanna upgrade to FP red. Makes 328 on pump, 450 on 85 on ECMLink v3.

I just wanna something that will perform good roll racing?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Kelford 264s or 272s
Auto, use 264s, 5 speed, use a 272.
Now, my son ran BC280s with stock springs and that car ran very well.
My cams do use bigger springs but I think you could fudge and use the 264s with stock springs.
Here you can find a nice list....so you can see that not all "272's" or whatever, are not the same lift but the same duration.
Thread '4G63 Camshaft Manufacturers and Models' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/4g63-camshaft-manufacturers-and-models.511413/

@Shtbox1gtalon22 , what IDCs are you seeing with 1000cc injectors on E85? I would bet they are almost maxed out. I'm using 80% of my 2150s when on E.
Just curious.

 

[jdxnc]

GSC S1 with some Kiggly Racing Steel street springs would be a perfect cam for that setup.

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

Kelford 264s or 272s
Auto, use 264s, 5 speed, use a 272.

I got the car, put a new Trans in it, 5 speed. Then I had issues with the car not going past 4.5k rpm and no response when mashing the peddle probly because I did put the air intake on. The balance shaft bearing exploded and so now I'm building it up but little by little.

GSC S1 with some Kiggly Racing Steel street springs would be a perfect cam for that setup.

For now I'd like to stay stock head should I just keep stock cams?

 

[curt-s]

Stock springs are probably pretty tired by now. You could end up with valve float at higher rpm
There's a number of cams that don't require replacement springs, like the 264s, but why not replace them with fresh, new ones that can take the ramp rates bigger cams exhibit?

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

Stock springs are probably pretty tired by now. You could end up with valve float at higher rpm
There's a number of cams that don't require replacement springs, like the 264s, but why not replace them with fresh, new ones that can take the ramp rates bigger cams exhibit?

Would Brian crower Steel springs and retainers work for 274s?

 

[curt-s]

BC springs and Ti retainers (to save weight) is more than enough for "272s", assuming that is what you meant. Every manufacturer has a different interpretation of 272, there's a thread or two on here comparing various cams.

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

BC springs and Ti retainers (to save weight) is more than enough for "272s", assuming that is what you meant. Every manufacturer has a different interpretation of 272, there's a thread or two on here comparing various cams.

I have the gsc s2 274 cams

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Those are good cams but they do have alot of lift. 11mm of lift and 274* of duration. They will give you room to "grow". Very close to Kelford 272s, which I LOVE, but more suited to 500hp+ cars.

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

Those are good cams but they do have alot of lift. 11mm of lift and 274* of duration. They will give you room to "grow". Very close to Kelford 272s, which I LOVE, but more suited to 500hp+ cars.

They can't be ran on stock spring tho right?

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

Those are good cams but they do have alot of lift. 11mm of lift and 274* of duration. They will give you room to "grow". Very close to Kelford 272s, which I LOVE, but more suited to 500hp+ cars.

I might stay stock cams till I decide to upgrade the head

 

[curt-s]

The main deal with stock springs are that they're old. The older and more used they are, the less they will return to stock size. At higher RPMs, they can exhibit valve float, where they do not return to their original shape fast enough to avoid the piston crown from sharing the same space. Also, valve float can extend your overlap or individual durations, working against your tune, even if they don't hit the piston. Basically, they become soggy.

Springs are pretty cheap in the grand scheme of a rebuild, I'd just get a new set to know that your cams are being used to their fullest potential and avoid any problems.

I upgraded my springs and still use stock cams, just because I knew they're old -- over 30 years old.

 

[Shtbox1gtalon22]

The main deal with stock springs are that they're old. The older and more used they are, the less they will return to stock size. At higher RPMs, they can exhibit valve float, where they do not return to their original shape fast enough to avoid the piston crown from sharing the same space. Also, valve float can extend your overlap or individual durations, working against your tune, even if they don't hit the piston. Basically, they become soggy.

Springs are pretty cheap in the grand scheme of a rebuild, I'd just get a new set to know that your cams are being used to their fullest potential and avoid any problems.

I upgraded my springs and still use stock cams, just because I knew they're old -- over 30 years old.

Definitely understand I appreciate the wisdom ill take that advice and apply it, I wad thinking the kiggly springs?

 

[bastarddsm]

The ammount of piss poor information in this thread is STAGGERING. OP, Pick some cams and then pick the springs that the cams recommend.

There are a few things to unpack if you want to stray from the above. In general something like a set of kiggly's steel street springs are good enough for virtually ANY camshaft that exists for these cars. There are outliers, but it's not likely that you will find them.

Cams like Kelfords and GSC have a pretty agressive ramp rate and do need better than stock springs. BC/Manley/Crower/Ect singles are not better than stock springs. They are basically a stock spring, with a tiny bit more seat pressure. They simply do not have the rate required to keep up with the accel/decel of a bigger cam - a ti retainer upgrade is a HUGE waist of money in this case as the are just simply not strong enough springs and the TI retainer isn't enough to help. To make matters worse the low seat pressure can allow exhaust pressure to blow the exhaust valves open and contaminate your intake charge. This is especially an issue with small turbo's trying to run big boost.

For a agressive cam and/or big boost you need something that is going to be 80-90lbs on the seat, and 300+lbs/in rate.

The small cams like OG HKS272 are ok on a GOOD stock spring - but most are junk (worn out) now and then you would still have the issue of not enough seat pressure to hold back the exhaust pressure - so just spend $300 get a set of kiggly street springs and don't worry about anything else.

My choice would probably be GSC s1 or kelfords in that range. If money is tight 100% spend the money on a spring before cams, and get some delta regrinds or something.

 

[jdxnc]

Would Brian crower Steel springs and retainers work for 274s?

I already mentioned which springs to use, the Kiggly steel street. They are proven. If you don't want to put the money into springs/retainers, don't bother with cams.

 

[curt-s]

So, for those springs listed, that's exhaust gas pressure exhibited within the manifold against the backside of the valve that is high enough to overcome the spring pressure and be able to unseat and open the valve? How is this not a recurring disclaimer to those running 16gs pushing 28-30psi on stock springs?


BC0100s are not correctly listed here?

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-valve-spring-seat-pressure-comparisons.528518/

 

[habitatguy187]

Are evo 8 springs and ti retainers still considered a spring upgrade?

 

[DSMPT]

Are evo 8 springs and ti retainers still considered a spring upgrade?

Yes, as long as if they are still in good working condition, the late evo's stock beehive springs and duralumin retainers can be considered as upgrade from DSM stock.