2G Advice on a Engine Rebuild & Transmission Rebuild 2023

[FredRider]

First, I'd like to say that I have really learned a lot about cars through this amazing community of DSMers! My first car was an Eagle Talon Tsi 97 FWD Automatic. I've had the car since 2018 I bought it for just $500.00 it has a 4g63 engine.

Lets start off with the BAD. I've been looking over the forums and I can't seem to find anything like this so I decided to start my own thread.

Recently, these past couple of months my engine decided to blow a head gasket and now everytime I try to turn it on it sounds like a piston or something is hitting like a clanking metal noise... then my engine just shuts off. Now for the transmission it was slipping and I had to put the O/D mode on or off depending on how you look at it.. (I made an older post about it in the past) for me to be able to drive normally till the engine decided to quit on me...

Now I do know that there's an issue that comes with these engines called "CrankWalk" So here comes my next question is it better to rebuild the engine or swap it out for something else? I know that it can be a daunting task for most but I owe it to that car for always pulling me out of hard times when I needed it the most. So I hate for it to be just sitting there in my driveway just being forgotten. As for the transmission I was already planning on converting it to a manual due to the fact that a lot of people would tell me that they were easier to work on and thats really when these type of vehicles shined the most!

With all this being said all I am really asking is for the generational amount of knowledge from this amazing community to help or give me some tips on how I could get the gears moving again and slowly restore the vehicle. I've seen it happen plenty of times with older cars so I believe that I could also do it myself especially with how much information we now have nowadays. I want to do all this myself if I I possibly can because that's what makes us tuners in my opinion. It's ok to make mistakes and learn from them. I also have came to terms that this project might take me 3 - 5 years to even get it back and running but I don't mind it as long as I do everything right and have patience.

I know that there is some people here in the community that will just critique instead of help but thats ok I'm just a 21 year old trynna restore his first car again. I have another vehicle so I would love to have this as my weekend driver and my goal for it is to make it to where its a fast reliable weekend warrior and obviously allowing me to be able to add more perfomrance mods if I ever wanted to.

***DISCLAIMER: I am no Professional Mechanic but I do have friends that have worked on Hondas and know their way around rebuilding engines and they are more than willing to give me a helping hand withe advice or tips you all may give me!***

***I WILL BE UPDATING THIS THREAD OVER THE YEARS OR PROGRESS THAT I MAKE INCASE SOMEONE EVER COMES ALONG AND IS IN THIS PREDICAMENT. I WILL ALSO BE DELETING MESSAGES THAT DONT HELP SO I CAN KEEP IT AS ORGANIZED AS POSSIBLE AND IT DOESN'T JUST TURN INTO A RABBIT HOLE***

- FredRider

 

[FredRider]

Most stands should be universal. I used a harbor freight stand like this:

1000 lb. Capacity Engine Stand

Amazing deals on this 1000Lb Engine Stand at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

You have to remove the transmission, use longer bolts and mount the stand to where the trans was bolted.

Do you know the exact size of the bigger bolts? And thank you!

 

[dwb]

Do you know the exact size of the bigger bolts?

M10 but length depends on your stand. I bought mine a little long and used a stack of washers so they wouldn't bottom out.

 

[FredRider]

M10 but length depends on your stand. I bought mine a little long and used a stack of washers so they wouldn't bottom out.

I have the same stand you showed but the reason I didn't use it was because they had told me the bolts wouldn't fit it. That's why I was asking what engine stand would work with it.

 

[dwb]

I have the same stand you showed but the reason I didn't use it was because they had told me the bolts wouldn't fit it. That's why I was asking what engine stand would work with it.

I didn't buy my stand new, but as far as I know, they don't come with bolts that mount to the block. Just go pickup some M10 of the proper length from your favorite hardware store.

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[curt-s]

I used my old ARP turbo bolts. A little long, many washers, but it worked.
Until the machine shop didn't return them

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Same stand.
My bolts are 3" long BTW

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[dwb]

Little more detail - your bolts need to be M10x1.25.
I used 75mm bolts and about 3/8" of washers.

 

[FredRider]

Little more detail - your bolts need to be M10x1.25.
I used 75mm bolts and about 3/8" of washers.

Same stand.
My bolts are 3" long BTW

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Thank you guys for the fast response! I will remove the transmission and then mount it the way you guys are telling me to! I'm proud to be part of an amazing group of DSMers

 

[FredRider]

UPDATE: 4/9/2024

So I removed the transmission this morning! I found out that there was two transmission bolts missing that attach to the engine so whats new.. I'm sure I can find replacement bolts for it I hope. I also think I found out the reason my engine would shake on idle and when I would turn it on. The culprits were bad motor mounts. Almost all of them are as bad as this one right here which is the rear motor mount by the firewall!

With that being said I did break bolt... Well techniquly I didn't break it it broke on itself. It kinda just snapped after I laid it on the magnetic plate I looked back at it and the bolt was snapped by the threads.. Any idea why that would happen? Too much stress?

Another question is what do I do now with the transmission? Should I check the input whaft to see if it has any play on it? Do I send it to get rebuilt or what else can I do with it?

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Here are some pictures of it:

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[FredRider]

So I removed the torque converter and the flex plate is stuck to it but how do I remove the other part behind the plate?

Do I have to remove it to put it on an engine stand?

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[dwb]

Yes, remove the drive plate and drive plate adapter from the crank and then remove the starter plate from the block. You will need something to hold the crank, probably the crank bolt on the front side, to remove the 7 bolts from the drive plate.

 

[DogWhistle]

Do NOT use that rubberized coating for the engine compartment, if that was your question.

The textured surface will hold all kinds of dirt and look eternally dirty. In addition, if water were to get underneath a crack or nick in the coating, the water could start rust that you are unable to see until it's quite advanced.

Clean the engine bay walls thoroughly and if they need painting, lightly sand them and apply a primer and then the color paint. You'll be glad you did when it's all done. Check a few of the Build Threads here that are going through the same process.

 

[FredRider]

Yes, remove the drive plate and drive plate adapter from the crank and then remove the starter plate from the block. You will need something to hold the crank, probably the crank bolt on the front side, to remove the 7 bolts from the drive plate.

So someone would have to hold the crank with a 1/2 bar so it doesn't rotate the crank? While someone else unbolts the drive plate adapter.

Do NOT use that rubberized coating for the engine compartment, if that was your question.

The textured surface will hold all kinds of dirt and look eternally dirty. In addition, if water were to get underneath a crack or nick in the coating, the water could start rust that you are unable to see until it's quite advanced.

Clean the engine bay walls thoroughly and if they need painting, lightly sand them and apply a primer and then the color paint. You'll be glad you did when it's all done. Check a few of the Build Threads here that are going through the same process.

Yeah I ended up not doing it I did clean it thoroughly, primed it and repainted it instead with engine high temp paint.

 

[97egl]

UPDATE APRIL 8TH, 2024:

So after a whole year of planning and making sure I took my time with the removal of the engine I was able to finally do it today! I took it out with the transmission as well and after this picture was taken. I wrapped it up with Ceraramp paper and then covered it with a canvas drop cloth and a tarp for extra protection maybe I overdid it hahaha.

When I was removing it more of the mystery forbidden Milkshake pioured out of it. Not too much but still some and my friend who was willing to help me with letting me use his engine hoist confirmed that it was just a blown head gasket. But he did agree with me bout making the choice of wanting to completely rebuild the engine and transmission. He just warned me about the timing.

So with that being said I am super excited with whats to come now... What should I do next? Also where can I get an engine stand that could be used for this engine? I have one but it doesn't fit it.

Should I remove the transmission first?

I also want to clean my engine bay and my friend told me about using rubberized undercoating on it to keep it from rusting after I cleaned the engine bay? What do you all think?

I would steer clear of the undercoating. If you find scratches in the engine bay or chipped paint you can get touch up paint and then clear coat over it and that will protect the metal way better than undercoating. Pretty much all aerosol under coatings do is crack after several years and trap water and salt behind them which will rust the car really fast.

 

[FredRider]

UPDATE: 5/5/2024


So I finally took off the head and even bought a work bench from Harbor Frieght! It was on sale so I said why not. With that being said I have been marking everything down and putting in containers while also recording for hours on end.

Here are some pictures of the head and block and also the oil pan. What do you guys think? The Head Gasket looked good in my opinion so I don’t know what it could’ve been maybe a faulty water pump?

The friend that is helping me said it may not be necessary to send the block to go get resurfaced or get pistons we should just clean it thoroughly but I don’t know. What do you all think?

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[dwb]

Based on the oil pan pic, you have a spun bearing or something really messed up. If you're lucky it's just the balance shaft bearing.

Your friend is not giving you good advice. No amount of cleaning will fix it. Tear that thing down and figure out where the failure is.

Now that metal has run through the oil system, every oil galley/passage must be thoroughly cleaned. The oil cooler is likely garbage as well since it can't be cleaned.

 

[pauleyman]

Agreed. That motor must be torn completely down. There is no other way.

 

[FredRider]

Based on the oil pan pic, you have a spun bearing or something really messed up. If you're lucky it's just the balance shaft bearing.

Your friend is not giving you good advice. No amount of cleaning will fix it. Tear that thing down and figure out where the failure is.

Now that metal has run through the oil system, every oil galley/passage must be thoroughly cleaned. The oil cooler is likely garbage as well since it can't be cleaned.

Ok sounds good! I will continue to tear it down.

 

[FredRider]

Update: 5/11/24

So I got a question that I’ve been meaning to ask. Does it matter if I just remove the timing belt because obviously I need to remove it and replace it when everything is said and done but I need to move the crankshaft to get the pistons to move and remove them from the engine.

So does it matter if I don’t time it because I am rebuilding it?

Here’s the progress I’ve made so far and that’s the reason I haven’t done anything else.

I removed the oil sump and plate as well as camshafts and rocker arms and they all looked good I wrapped them in ceramwrap and stored them. I just didn’t take any pictures of those I forgot.

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[pauleyman]

If a cylinder head is bolted to the engine and cams are installed you should not rotate the crank without a properly timed belt. If cams are out all valves should be closed and it no longer matters.

 

[FredRider]

Update: 5/17/24
So I removed the pistons finally after so much work. The first piston had a stuck ring. It looks like it was grinding on the cylinder. And the third piston was pretty much stuck onto the crankshaft… I think I’m going to just get a new crankshaft. I have yet to find where those metal shavings came from.

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[CKOPOCT]

Not sure if your friend is still advising you to save money/time by not having the block machined, but it's vital. Not only does the block need to be cleaned of all metal and decked to ensure it is true (perfectly flat), but the cylinder walls and bearing surfaces need to be measured and machined to ensure they are all consistent. Even small differences can translate into big problems (and short engine life) once math and the laws of physics get applied at 200 horses and several thousand rpms.

 

[curt-s]

By that I think @CKOPOCT mean's a line hone and then checking your main bearing clearances, to ensure crank will sit in there straight with equal clearances on top and bottom of each half.
On our old blocks, frequent heat/cool cycles can create minute warping over time.

 

[FredRider]

Do you guys think I should as well just get a new Crankshaft?

 

[CKOPOCT]

It depends on the condition of your current one and what your build goals are. If you aren't looking to build big hp and the current crank journals are descent, you can probably keep it and just have the journals polished. This will require new bearings sized to make up for the smaller journal diameter (due to material removed from polishing)... which is why you should either have a good machine shop take care of things, or havw good micrometers and a methodical process to measure the journals yourself and order the correct size bearings.
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